How to paint....help please

[camarossguy2]

I need to put some paint on the blazer.

Currently there are many spots of rust and and the paint is peeling, so i have stripped/sanding all the way down to the bare metal.

The paint im getting most likely will be a silver bronze metalic 2 stage paint and a Etching primer.

So how do i do this? I got a generall idea, just need to know the specifics.

This is what i thought:
1. sand metal with 400 ish grit?
2. Primer with etching primer over bare matal
3. scuff up primer???
4. 1 coat of base.
5. wet sand?????? grit?
6. spray top coat
7. clear coat?
8 wet sand with xxx-grit and buff

??? am i close???
Ive only done singe stage before, and i din't really gcare for the out come, i do now


thanks

[TheSean]

strip it to metal, primer, sand with 200 then 400 and 600 if you want it really smooth but no more, pain wont stick to more than 600. go buy a single stage paint and all you gotta do is spray it over the primer, its got the base topcoat and clear already in it. youll have to thin it out porobably 5-1 then get a gun and spray it. you dont have to sand that clear unless you get some orange peel. signle stage isnt bad. 3 stage really is for people who dont need to ask your question (not trying to be an ass).

i guess ill write you up somehting on 3 stage paint later, im doing a couple big projects this winter with 3 stage metal and im gonna redo my car with a deep pearl (has it stock, gonna do 10 ounces of HOK and 8 layers of topcoat/6 clears). I know a bit about paint :)

you can IM me if you got spec Qs

[camarossguy2]

strip it to metal, primer, sand with 200 then 400 and 600 if you want it really smooth but no more, pain wont stick to more than 600. go buy a single stage paint and all you gotta do is spray it over the primer, its got the base topcoat and clear already in it. youll have to thin it out porobably 5-1 then get a gun and spray it. you dont have to sand that clear unless you get some orange peel. signle stage isnt bad. 3 stage really is for people who dont need to ask your question (not trying to be an ass).

i guess ill write you up somehting on 3 stage paint later, im doing a couple big projects this winter with 3 stage metal and im gonna redo my car with a deep pearl (has it stock, gonna do 10 ounces of HOK and 8 layers of topcoat/6 clears). I know a bit about paint :)

you can IM me if you got spec Qs


The reson i am doing a 2 or 3 stg is because of the color.
Im not planing on doing all the door jams etc...so i need to paint it a color very close to what it is now, silver.
And silver will only look good in metalic (unless i want it to look like an aricraft carier)
And talking to the guys a bens paint, they informed me that i need to do at least a 2 stg paint job for metalics....something about tiger stripes if i attempted it with a single.

By all mean if i can do it single stg and make it look 80%+ as good as a pro i would

Opinions on a single staged metalic paint job???

[Brazen6.0]

2 words:

air tools

hope you got some because doing it by hand sucks...

the way to do it right is to strip the hole car of any paint, then prime it, about 2-3 coats, then sand it down with 600, prime it again, sand it down again, then once everything is nice, prime it once more to have an even coat, sand it down with 600-800 lightly, then spray your base coat as directed. Once the color is set, wet sand it with 1000 and soapwater, then clear it, then wet sand it with 1500....

Base coast are a pain...you can get good results with single stage paints...your paint will look as good as you paint gun is. I'd evoyed metalic paint for your first paint job, and if you don't have a good enough gun, you'll get blobs of sparkles on top of tiger stripes...Painting is not for everyone, I surely don't really like it....

[xstorque]

Sorry to butt in here fellas, but if nothing else, I am certainly an experienced "paint guy".

I wouldn't recommend single stage metallics either. If you aren't skilled in spraying to begin with, they are replete with problems. You have to use a loose wrist with any metallic or pearlescent paint when spraying, otherwise you will get 'tiger striping'. You need to practice to avoid it. Honestly, this applies to base/clear system metallics and pearls too, same technique must be used on the base ( if it's 2 step) or secondary coat metallic/pearl in a 3 step. Loose wrist random technique is a must, and it takes a little practice.

The other, maybe MORE important factor in a single stage metallic is that; what you spray is what you get. Meaning, you CANNOT wetsand metallics to remove debris and runs etc, you can only re-scuff the panel and repaint and try for a better outcome. The metallic particle pattern will be disturbed if wetsanded, and it will stick out like a sore thumb, so "blocking" it for dirt, orange peel etc. cannot be done. You have one shot to get it perfect, because once you spray it, you're stuck with it, orange peel and all.

IMO, do the 2 part with a clear over it. Metallics oxidize fast when they're not cleared over too, so that's another reason not to do SS metallic. With clear on top, you'll have a UV to protect the silver paint, and you'll be able to wetsand /block the clear for runs, dirt, orange peel and get a show winning finish. You don't even need to be that skilled to get there. When I started using base/clear systems years ago, I got runs, but I was skilled at wetsanding and just sanded them out. If you need any help doing that I'd be happy to help free of charge, at least show you what to do and what you need.

Best of luck, Dan H

[camarossguy2]

Sorry to butt in here fellas, but if nothing else, I am certainly an experienced "paint guy".

I wouldn't recommend single stage metallics either. If you aren't skilled in spraying to begin with, they are replete with problems. You have to use a loose wrist with any metallic or pearlescent paint when spraying, otherwise you will get 'tiger striping'. You need to practice to avoid it. Honestly, this applies to base/clear system metallics and pearls too, same technique must be used on the base ( if it's 2 step) or secondary coat metallic/pearl in a 3 step. Loose wrist random technique is a must, and it takes a little practice.

The other, maybe MORE important factor in a single stage metallic is that; what you spray is what you get. Meaning, you CANNOT wetsand metallics to remove debris and runs etc, you can only re-scuff the panel and repaint and try for a better outcome. The metallic particle pattern will be disturbed if wetsanded, and it will stick out like a sore thumb, so "blocking" it for dirt, orange peel etc. cannot be done. You have one shot to get it perfect, because once you spray it, you're stuck with it, orange peel and all.

IMO, do the 2 part with a clear over it. Metallics oxidize fast when they're not cleared over too, so that's another reason not to do SS metallic. With clear on top, you'll have a UV to protect the silver paint, and you'll be able to wetsand /block the clear for runs, dirt, orange peel and get a show winning finish. You don't even need to be that skilled to get there. When I started using base/clear systems years ago, I got runs, but I was skilled at wetsanding and just sanded them out. If you need any help doing that I'd be happy to help free of charge, at least show you what to do and what you need.

Best of luck, Dan H



I got all the airtools i will need and a choice of about 5 different guns, including gravity fed.
Hmmm well im still torn between single and multi staged...

Hey Dan,
$100 bucks+ lot-o-beer to spray my blazer? i will work along side you and do all the sanding etc...all prep work to, just spray and wet sand with me.

[xstorque]

Kenney, thanks for the offer but I'm retired from spraying these days for anyone but myself, for a few reasons, the toxicity issue being #1, the time factor and responsibility being another. That urethane clear has isocyanates in it and it's lethal shit. Being I have lung problems since I was a youngin' and sprayed enough cars w/o protection, I made a vow to the wifus that I'd quit. (I still sneak a fender or mirror on my own cars though, but small stuff where I can hold my breath and then vacate the area... stuff I can do quick without her knowing too, heh)

You may have a respirator, but unfortunately there's no OSHA respirator approved for isocyanates, they get through the best of 'em. You need a free air (positive airflow system) for complete safety. I want to pick up a Hobby Air unit, but I haven't had the spare $$$ in the last year or 2 to swing it, especially since I only have the need to spray infrequently, it's hard to justify. I painted my SC with a borrowed scuba tank (true story!) but I wouldn't do that again. Iso's have made a lot of people sick, even killed some, so DO have a plan for them. The base color isn't too bad, it's basically like breathing rattle-can spray paint...it's the hardener for the clear ( or single stage 2k enamels) that presents the problem.

I'll be more than happy to be there and give you pointers( if you do it at a time I'm free), even wetsand with you if you need the help, but I have turned down many local friends and aquaintences, including , Justin Falla, Eric M, half of the T-Bird SC guys I know, so don't take it personal.

I would simply suggest you take a 1/2 pint of the metallic color and spray an old hood, or garbage can etc. to get the knack of loose wrist spraying. You just have to forget the notion of back & forth overlapping with a locked wrist/arm. Once you get it where the metallics are random with no visible pattern, you're there. You may only need 5 minutes to get the hang.

You go back to the locked wrist and stiff arm for the clear. Remember, you'll still have to spray single stage enamel the same way if it's got metallic in it. Again; The only thing different will be the fact you can't wetsand the single stage afterward. And unless you're REAL good, you'll have some runs and orange peel. With clear on top, that's fixable. Single stage metallic, not.

[camarossguy2]

Kenney, thanks for the offer but I'm retired from spraying these days for anyone but myself, for a few reasons, the toxicity issue being #1, the time factor and responsibility being another. That urethane clear has isocyanates in it and it's lethal shit. Being I have lung problems since I was a youngin' and sprayed enough cars w/o protection, I made a vow to the wifus that I'd quit. (I still sneak a fender or mirror on my own cars though, but small stuff where I can hold my breath and then vacate the area... stuff I can do quick without her knowing too, heh)


Ok man thanks anyway,

Last night on that pimp my rides show they showed a 85 suburban get redun and it looked amazing, whitch got me excited about maybe doing other colors (requires painting door jams). so i was looking online etc for some colors...and brands, could you maybe tell me whats are some brands to look into and what ones to stay away from?

I found these:
"Hawthorne "Rayflex" Acrylic Enamel," gallon metalic blue with rducers etc.. "$249" for $50
"High Quality X-Treme Ultra 5000 urethane clear" gallon, sale for $50
single stage "ultra 7000" blue with all reducers etc... "$249 " $60
dupont chroma base?

couple i found on ebay i really liked the colors...both single and multi stgs availibe


Would a gallon cover the K5 full size blazer?

Thanks

[HORSEpower]

Changing colors is a pain in the ass.

Kurt

[Typhoon]

did anyone remember to hit it with a Tack cloth

[xstorque]

Ok man thanks anyway,

Last night on that pimp my rides show they showed a 85 suburban get redun and it looked amazing, whitch got me excited about maybe doing other colors (requires painting door jams). so i was looking online etc for some colors...and brands, could you maybe tell me whats are some brands to look into and what ones to stay away from?

I found these:
"Hawthorne "Rayflex" Acrylic Enamel," gallon metalic blue with rducers etc.. "$249" for $50
"High Quality X-Treme Ultra 5000 urethane clear" gallon, sale for $50
single stage "ultra 7000" blue with all reducers etc... "$249 " $60
dupont chroma base?

couple i found on ebay i really liked the colors...both single and multi stgs availibe


Would a gallon cover the K5 full size blazer?

Thanks


Couple things to keep in mind;

You can do some cool stuff with House Of Kolor brand paints, but they're proprietary in that you CAN"T use any other brand products with them, so once you start with them you're stuck with them more or less, due to compatibility issues. They are probably the brand to choose for really striking colors, and metalflakes & pearls, BUT, they usually require additional steps ( a lot are tri-coats or have tinted clears etc) and skills, so they're really not the best choice if you haven't painted much. Great stuff though, esp. for custom paint / show cars. If you're a novice, some of these things can get you in over your head really fast, so my advice is KEEP IT SIMPLE.


DuPont Chroma is a high quality line, I know because it was recommended to me 10 years ago and I used that to paint my SC, and whenever I have to spray urethane base/clear on anything that's what I use. To this day my SC looks "just painted" and it still wins trophys at shows. Will hold up forever if taken care of minimally. Spies Hecker is a German paint that costs crazy $$$ but is used on BMW and Mercedes cars, sick good paint, probably overkill in price and requirement for your Blazer. I'm not familiar with "High Quality X-Treme Ultra 5000 urethane clear" but there are many budget and mid-line paints that ARE decent enough, you may not get 10+ years out of them, but I'. guessing you don't need to either. Buy the best paint you can afford unless you just want it painted and aren't worried about how long it shines and lasts. Good prep will go a long way in making a cheaper paint look good and last. Conversely, poor prep will make high quality paint look mediocre and wear poorly.

PPG, BASF, DuPont, RM, and Sherwin Williams, Martin Senour and Valspar (House Of Kolor)are the major players in auto paint biz. EVERY brand there has budget line, Mid-Line, and High-End paint lines, you just need to determine how long you need the paint to hold up, because (generally) the more you pay, the better the resins and longevity of the paint. There is also a term called "DOI" which stands for "Definition Of Image" and refers to a clearcoat's ability to reflect as water reflects, on a given panel. Water has a DOI of 10, the best clears available have a DOI of 8-9, the budget brands around a 7. This is why on some cheap brand clears, you can polish till your arms are sore and you'll never get the reflections of a High -End clear with better resins. You still get what you pay for.

Now, one other thing you can do that is common is to use a cheap budget base (PPG-Omni or DuPont Nason) and THEN use a high end clear over it like (PPG-DDL, Dupont Chroma Premier) and that will save you a little $$$ but put the best paint on top for shine and definition. Some of those high end clears are really expensive though.

BTW, will you be using a HVLP gun or a siphon feed? That makes a BIG difference on how much paint you're gonna need. You also need a bigger (11cfm or more ) compressor to meet the HVLP gun's requirements. You can get away with a smaller compressor if you use an older type siphon feed gun (which I do).

With a HVLP gun, a gallon will do, with a siphon feed, you may need 6-7 qts clear ( I did). It will depend also on if you decide to spray the jambs. Color change require almost 40% more paint as well, taking into account the trunklid underneath, and sills and engine compartment, and door jambs etc. HVLP - most of the paint goes on the car. Siphon feed-half the paint is lost in the air.

It took me 2 solid weeks to do my SC that way (it used to be silver) but I practically disassembled the car too. That was my last full job I ever do like that. Too much work and time!
Ahh, but you're young, go for it! :)

If you do decide to go single stage metallic, I have one other thing to warn you about, but I'd rather not keep going here unless it's necessary. I still suggest you stick with a base/clear urethane if you can swing the extra $$$.

[z28hauls]

i have some news for you guys. first you don't wet sand basecoats. especially metallic bases. only wet sand the clear if needed. you only sand bases if you get trash in it but you should re-coat after.also do not sand with 800 grit then basecoat. if you read the can they usually recommend 360-400 max.